Big 3 Briefing, Week 9 - Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can’t Lose

Rainy Day Recess, Episode 23

March 12, 2025

See our Show Notes

[00:00:00] Christie Robertson: Welcome to Rainy Day Recess. This is Week 9 of the Big 3 Briefing Series where we are tracking bills in our state legislature related to the key funding priorities for school districts across Washington.  

I'm Christie Robertson, a parent of two kids in Seattle Public Schools and co-producer of the podcast. And my co-host for this series is Megan Larkin.

[00:00:24] Megan Larkin: Hello, I also have two kids in SPS and I have a background in Education Leadership and Policy Studies. I'm the regional advocacy co-chair for the Washington State PTA focusing on Seattle, but I'm not here in that role. I'm just here as a Big 3 fan.

[00:00:41] Christie Robertson: And the Big 3, again, are the biggest gaps between what districts need to spend and what the state funds. The three areas are special education, MSOC (which stands for materials, supplies, and operating costs), and student transportation.

[00:01:00] Megan Larkin: We've been tracking the small set of bills related to the Big 3 as they navigate the legislative process. 

[00:01:06] Christie Robertson: And Megan, I got some feedback from a student listener of ours that we should emphasize the advocacy actions that can be taken in our episodes. And that happens to be the main focus of this episode is what action can you take in the next couple of weeks.

[00:01:25] Megan Larkin: Yes. Good news, we're about to give you actions. 

[00:01:28] Christie Robertson: The advocacy that we're going to talk about in this episode is going to your local town halls. We are going to talk a bunch more about that later in the episode.

And the other thing I think we should say at the top is that, we heard from some listeners that the last episode was really depressing. And so this is our pep rally episode. We are going to pump you up. We are not going to give up. We are going to keep going

[00:01:54] Megan Larkin: Yes.

Where we stand

[00:02:03] Megan Larkin: Just to recap where we're at. We're a little bit more than halfway through the legislature's 105 day session. I think it's the 57th day as we're recording this on Monday, the 10th of March. There are four remaining bills in the legislature for the Big 3. A moment of silence for our dearly departed transportation bills, which died in the fiscal cutoff on February 28th. But we're not going to give up on them. We're going to try to get money in a budget proviso. 

The other bills are SB 5192, which is the Senate MSOC bill, HB 1338, which is the house MSOC bill. And for context with these, they're way too low. The Senate bill gives about $77 extra dollars per student and the House bill $5.55. And just to underscore how ludicrous that is, SPS has a per pupil gap of something like $279 a student.

The special education bills are SB 5263 and HB 1357. Those also have some problems. It's just straight up, not enough funding to cover the gaps. 

So at the beginning of the session, there were about 1,800 bills and there are 730 left. The next cutoff is: bills must pass out of their house of origin by this Wednesday, March 12.

Now what?

[00:03:28] Christie Robertson: And Megan, why don't we give up at this point? Things are not looking good.

[00:03:36] Megan Larkin: It's rough out there. We're currently in an education funding crisis, as you know. To invest in our future, we have to invest in education. And funding from the legislature just is not doing that to an adequate level. Our students continue to be impacted by the loss of staff, programs, and critical services. Six of Washington's 295 districts are in binding conditions, and one is on the brink of receivership. Next year, dozens more will be added to that count. 

In the first half of the legislative session, the legislature took some promising bills and stripped away their funding, so they don't even come close to covering the funding gaps. We talked earlier in the episode about the MSOC bills, $5.55 cents in additional funding when the gap is $279. That is not okay. And students who get special education services are not getting the opportunities that they deserve due to this underfunding.

That was the first half of the session. But now we're getting ready for the second half. The good news is that... 

[00:04:57] Christie Robertson: It's not too late

[00:04:58] Megan Larkin: It's not too late. We're only getting started. They want us to be like, "Oh well, I guess it's done." But no, we're not gonna do that because it's not done. These are kids. There's one million kids in Washington that need our help, and we're not just going to be like, "Oh no, this is hard," and get distracted and go over and do another thing. No, we're here until our kids get the funding that they need. 

The good news is that legislators still have an opportunity to move the remaining bills forward and amend them to put back the funding that they took away from us. But to make it happen, we need to advocate. 

And mid session, a lot of legislators have town halls where they check in with their constituents about how things are going and they hear how the constituents are feeling. We need to pack those town halls and underscore that we are watching and that we will hold legislators accountable. 

One of the big advantages of public education advocacy, especially around funding, is that we have a lot of numbers. As I probably mentioned a couple times, there's 1.1 million students in Washington, those students have loved ones, community members, educators... There's just millions of us that want more funding for education. Our cause is broadly popular and we have really sympathetic members of our coalition. I mean, It's kids. 

So. I understand that it was depressing after the bloodbath. I too was depressed. RIP 1310 and the transportation prong of the Big 3. But we're going to come back stronger in the second half. And we're going to pack these town halls. In the immortal words of Coach Taylor, "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose. Ooh!"

[00:06:56] Christie Robertson: Friday Night Lights reference.

[00:06:57] Megan Larkin: Yes.

[00:06:59] Christie Robertson: And one of the cool things about town halls is that you can make a difference just by showing up. The more people that are there and sign in and say that they're there to talk about education, the bigger difference it makes. And even more so if you ask a question. I can tell you that I've been to town halls and there are maybe like one or two questions often about education. And that gives legislators the idea that not a lot of people are watching this and that they can turn their attention elsewhere. So we need to give the message this session: that is not where our community stands.

[00:07:39] Megan Larkin: Yes, exactly. And if you're out there thinking, "Oh, okay, but they don't mean me, like I'm not supposed to show up at a town hall." Yes, you. You specifically. We need the numbers. You don't need to talk. You don't need to do much. You just have to be there to give legislators the message that there is this huge number of people that are behind fully funding public education, as is our constitutional duty.

[00:08:04] Christie Robertson: So we're going to talk about how to find your town halls, how to represent what you're there for. And then if you want to ask a question, we'll talk about talking points. And then we'll also talk about responses to legislator pushback.

[00:08:18] Megan Larkin: Yes. 

[00:08:19] Christie Robertson: And these are kind of in the order of escalating advocacy. If all you can do is show up, that's great. If you can ask a question, that's great too. And if you actually have a conversation with your legislator and can answer their pushback, that is also great. Whatever level you're at, we have instructions for you.

Show Up

[00:08:44] Christie Robertson: Okay. The first thing to do is to find a town hall for your legislative district. And can you go to town halls for other legislative districts, Megan?

[00:08:56] Megan Larkin: You can go, but it's more powerful if you're a constituent, because then you can say, “I'm a constituent. And that means that I can vote for you or not.”

[00:09:08] Christie Robertson: Right.

[00:09:08] Megan Larkin: Don't say that second part though. Just that you're a constituent. 

[00:09:11] Christie Robertson: We will have links to the Seattle area town halls and the lists of the statewide town halls in our show notes. And you can also, if you want to just look them up, the House and Senate Democrats and the House and Senate Republicans, their websites have lists of all the town halls. And there are a ton of them. There's 8 or 10 on March 15th and 8 or 10 on March 22nd. 

[00:09:40] Megan Larkin: So if you're wanting to see more education funding, show up at the town hall. Bring your friends. Bring your relatives. Bring your kids. Just bring as many people as you can to drive home the point that there are a ton of us. 

[00:09:57] Christie Robertson: And, is there, like, an agreed upon color like Red for Ed, is that...

[00:10:01] Megan Larkin: Yeah, Red for Ed is common. Confusingly, there's PTA blue as well. But I think what is hopefully happening is that the PTAs or advocacy orgs in a legislative district are talking to each other. And they'll figure out how they're gonna show their numbers. 

So the organizers will be like, "Okay, we're all gonna wear red. And when somebody from our group stands to speak, we're all going to stand up." 

Or if it's like a Zoom town hall, "Okay, we're all going to have matching backgrounds, and we're all going to turn our cameras on when somebody is speaking. We're all going to put our ask in the chat with supporting documents." 

And if it's a telephone call, "we're all going to explicitly state how many of us are there on the call and that we're here for education." So For the leadership of those advocacy orgs, it's about getting organized to show our numbers in the most effective way possible.

For example, you could introduce yourself when you're speaking, like, "Hi, I'm one of your constituents. My name is Megan. I came here with 25 of my fellow parents from all of the PTAs in the 32nd. And the membership of all of those PTAs is, I don't know, like 500 people. We are here to report back to our membership what you are going to do to fully fund our schools." So you're very clearly underscoring that we're organized, we're keeping track of what you're doing. And we're going to follow up. We're not going to forget about this.

[00:11:43] Christie Robertson: Awesome. And then you can also follow up after the town hall. And reiterate, and give them some data to back up what you're asking for. 

Speaking

[00:11:52] Christie Robertson: Okay, now let's talk about leveling up. This next section is for if you are going to ask a question of your legislator.

[00:12:00] Megan Larkin: Before the meeting, you want to do some basic reconnaissance on your legislators. 

[00:12:06] Christie Robertson: And again, this is optional, but helpful if you're going to speak.

[00:12:10] Megan Larkin: That's another benefit of going through one of the advocacy organizations that speaks to your priorities, because their leadership should already have that information. 

And don't forget to thank the legislators at the town hall where it's appropriate, because it telegraphs two things. One is that “We're paying close attention, because we know what you did. That's how come we're thanking you.” And the other is that, “We're here for you. We're going to back you up. Like you have the numbers.” So maybe they feel more comfortable pushing for adding stuff back into a bill. 

For example, Senator Pedersen in the 43rd has been just an amazing champion around that special education bill that he is co sponsoring with the Republican leader of the Senate. So if you're going to the 43rd town hall, you would want to thank Senator Pedersen for that leadership and for being a sponsor on 5263. 

Same goes for Gerry Pollet in the 46th. He's been an education Advocate and ally for many years. He was the sponsor on 1310, our dearly departed House Special Education Bill. So thank Pollet. We're letting our legislators know that we're paying attention.

[00:13:14] Christie Robertson: Yes, you can also look up, if you're interested, there's a page on leg.wa.gov that will show you what bills your legislator has sponsored either prime sponsor or signed on to. And you can also look up what committees they're on. So for example, if they're on Rules, that's a really important role right now because that's how bills get to the floor.

[00:13:58] Megan Larkin: You also want to, prior to the meeting, get together with all of your buddies who are there to advocate for education funding and coordinate who is going to speak and in what order. So you want to see if there is anyone that has a really moving impact story or is a really great public speaker. And if there's not time for all your questions, you have ordered your questions by priority so that you can get the thing that's the most important to your group in there. And people aren't taking time to just ask the same question over and over again. Or, ideally, if there's students there, it'd be great if we prioritize the student voice, since they're the most impacted by all of this. 

[00:14:47] Christie Robertson: And if you are a student and you're listening to this, it would be super cool if you brought some of your friends to the town hall. A group of high school students in red I could just see being very impactful.

[00:15:00] Megan Larkin: Yes. Yeah. As many of your friends as possible. And your friends’ friends. And your friends’ friends’ friends. Like, just, we want to flood these things to really show how many of us are there. 

Okay. Amidst all of this, it's important to make our voices heard, but we always want to be respectful to the legislators, even if emotions are running high.

We don't want to be like, “how dare you? You suck!” Like, that's going to burn bridges. And that's NOT what we want to do. We want to build long term relationships with these decision-makers, so we can work with them to write the bills that we want to see. So we're being respectful, but that doesn't mean we're being meek. And that doesn't mean that we're not asking for what we want.

[00:15:48] Christie Robertson: Yep. Okay, and then after the town hall? Follow up?

[00:15:51] Megan Larkin: Follow up. Yep. Send an email reiterating your points and link it to some data. And then track what that legislator does for the rest of the session. And email them a thank you when they do stuff that you like and express your disappointment when they do stuff that you don't. Do this all respectfully, but we want to show throughout the remainder of the session that there are a ton of us. We want education funding. We're organized. And we're paying attention. That is a terrifying combination, especially when you mix in the fact that this is about kids. We could really be a juggernaut of a force for the rest of the legislative session if we stay organized. And don't give up. Clear Eyes Full Hearts Can't Lose.

Example questions

[00:16:47] Christie Robertson: And so let's talk about some talking points and sample questions.

[00:16:53] Megan Larkin: Yes, so these will also be in the show notes. And whatever advocacy org you're working with will probably have versions of talking points too. This is not an exhaustive list. You can take your own riff on it. It is always good to come into this type of situation with talking points rather than being off the cuff so that you cover the most ground and that you're really strategic in what you say. It's also helpful if there's data and personal impact stories.

So one of the areas that we want to make sure we hit is special education, because currently there is a $558.7 million statewide shortfall in special education. So we are going to go over a couple possible sample questions. 

One question might be: 

"Last year the state underfunded special education by $558 million. And most districts had to make up that deficit with their enrichment levies. This includes Seattle Public Schools. The bills that are currently moving through the legislature, just don't have sufficient funding to cover the special education gap. Will you commit to helping our schools by fighting for additional funding?" 

[00:18:08] Megan Larkin: I think about questions or talking points like I do about master recipes when you're cooking. Like it gives you, like, the points that you want to hit. Then you can also do your own add-ins for your own situation.

[00:18:21] Christie Robertson: Yeah, so the formula is: 

• State the problem. 
• State how it impacts you. 
• State why they should care about it. 
• And a specific ask.

[00:18:32] Megan Larkin: Yes. A way of remembering that is:

• what?
• so what?
• now what?

You want to make sure all of those points are in the questions. 

Another possible question for special education would be talking about that enrollment cap. You could say: 

“We support legislation in this session that would remove the cap on enrollment, increase the student multiplier, lower the safety net threshold for high cost students, and support inclusionary practices for students with disabilities. Will you take back a message and tell your colleagues that any special education bill must have all of these elements and close the funding gap?" 

[00:19:21] Christie Robertson: For both MSOC and special ed, I think it would be really cool to look at the AESD tool. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to find by googling for it. I always have to do a big run around to find it. Go to our show notes and we will link to it there. And if you go to the page for your district, you could, I think, print it out and bring it with you. I know you can't have visual aids for testimony, but I'm sure you could hold it up in a town hall, right?

[00:19:47] Megan Larkin: I think so. What the town halls are like varies from legislator to legislator. But for most of them, I'm reminded of school board meetings when people give testimony. 

[00:19:56] Christie Robertson: For a lot of them, people line up at mics. They don't have a time limit, but you want to be succinct. And just take turns asking questions.

Let's do MSOC.

[00:20:07] Megan Larkin: All right. So our good buddy MSOC is underfunded by $613.7 million statewide. 

[00:20:16] Christie Robertson: And just a reminder, MSOC (materials, supplies, and operating costs) is the “keep the lights on” money. The basics of running schools.

[00:20:24] Megan Larkin: Yeah, what you need to have a school. This isn't something you can tighten your belt around. You need to have utilities. You need to have insurance. The basics.

So one possible question for MSOC would be: 

"In my district, we're facing critical budget shortfalls." And then you can insert your own numbers from that AESD tool that Christie mentioned. "Due to the rising costs of insurance and utilities and other materials, supplies, and operating costs, we are challenged to keep the lights on. We are challenged to keep schools staffed and the doors open. We are doing our best by backfilling the MSOC costs with levy money, but the state's refusal to give districts money for non-negotiable basics like heat, water, and legally required insurance isn't right. And it's not sustainable. Neither the House nor the Senate MSOC bills will cover the very basic operating costs. Are you aware that the House bill would only add $5.55 of new money per student? And the Senate bill would only add about $72 per student. Can we count on you to step up and make sure the amount is closer to $300 per student? Because that is what we need." 

[00:21:47] Christie Robertson: Here's just another way, is to make a comparison. 

"I'm sure you've seen that eggs cost more in grocery stores. inflation like that also affects all of the basic costs of running a school. MSOC funding is not tied to inflation. Districts have to pay those costs, and it's not being reimbursed by the state, which is where 100 percent of that money is supposed to be coming from. Will you commit to make sure that the state funds more than a cup of coffee, or a dozen eggs per student." 

This next set of questions are... these are just reminding them that they are the legislators, they write the budget, and we expect them to do their constitutional duty. Schools are not magic money factories, and when the legislature does not fund schools, they do not have the money. We're counting on them.

[00:22:42] Megan Larkin: Yes. I like this next question because it does a great job of heading off some common legislator deflection techniques. And we will provide you with direct responses to those deflection techniques later in the episode. 

This question that you could potentially ask your legislators at town hall is, 

"We are here because you represent us. And we know that you care about families and children in our district. We need you to address school funding now. Today. In this legislative session, as the leaders we know you to be. Not contingent on additional revenue, or what other legislators do, or what the governor chooses. Will you stand up and be a champion for fully funding our public schools?"  

[00:23:32] Christie Robertson: And here's another general one. 

"We have watched our district make cuts and more cuts over the last several years. And this has resulted in the class sizes for my kid going up from 25 to 30, and now some of their classes have more than 40 kids. We are tired of hearing that our district is not being fiscally responsible when the problem is that there is not enough funding to adequately meet the costs of education we want for our children. Will you commit to significantly increasing the allocations in the school funding bills under consideration and help our district and others close their budget gaps and meet the needs of our students."

[00:24:17] Megan Larkin: Yes, that's a good general one. “Will you commit to putting the money that the legislature stripped away back?”

Pushback

[00:24:26] Christie Robertson: So Megan pushback. We've heard a lot of this push back. And it can be very confusing when a legislator pushes back on you. They may push back with something that you've never heard. And you may think, "whoa, is that true?" so we want to fill you in with some of the answers to those.

And I was thinking, Megan, how about if I play the legislator, and you play the pusher back?

[00:24:50] Megan Larkin: Okay, I will be the pusher-back.

[00:24:53] Christie Robertson: "Okay you know what, Megan? You should pressure the governor's office. Really, the ball's in his court."

[00:25:00] Megan Larkin: "I appreciate what you're saying, Representative Christie. But the legislative branch writes the budget, not the governor. You need to step up first and make sure that whatever budget is proposed includes sufficient funds for K-12 schools."

[00:25:15] Christie Robertson: Okay, Megan, you're right. I'll do that.

[00:25:18] Megan Larkin: Oh, that it were that easy,

But yeah, no, they love to be like, "No it's this other person. That's the problem. Not me.” And it's like, "Wait no, the legislature writes the budget."

[00:25:28] Christie Robertson: " Megan, I would love to fund schools, but we have something like a $12 billion budget deficit on the state level, and we just can't do it without progressive revenue."

[00:25:40] Megan Larkin: I support progressive revenue. And it's Washington's paramount duty to amply fund basic education. Not Washington's paramount duty to fund basic education if and only if there's progressive revenue. Basic education is part of the underlying budget, and you must prioritize and fund that first. Progressive revenue should support programs that are needed, but not constitutionally required.

[00:26:06] Christie Robertson: And I would add to that that we will pledge to support them in the fight for progressive revenue as well.

[00:26:13] Megan Larkin: Yes. So there's two separate tracks: The progressive revenue track, and the funding education track. And we'll support you on both. But don't try to be like "No, no, no, progressive revenue first." Our schools need this money now. There's going to be just like a bloodbath of staffing cuts if we don't get it.

[00:26:37] Christie Robertson: I think this is particularly important if you're talking to a legislator who does not have a primary focus on education, because they probably have other things that they care very deeply about, and they may be very important things. So I think letting them know that you care about those other things, too, and that you will fight for progressive revenue to fund those is important.

[00:26:53] Megan Larkin: Yes. We'll fight for progressive revenue. We'll fight for behavioral health. There are so many things that we support. But you doing this thing can't be contingent upon all these other things. 

[00:27:07] Christie Robertson: Okay. Here's another one. "Megan. I'm not on the budget committee or the Rules committee, or, like, really any of the relevant committees that these bills are going through."

[00:27:25] Megan Larkin: "You do have a vote on the budget, though, when it comes to the floor. We're asking you to speak up in caucus, talk to your colleagues, and commit that you won't support a budget that doesn't fully close the funding gaps this session."

[00:27:40] Christie Robertson: And this next one is a talking point for a lot of Republican legislators. "I would love to give more money for MSOC, but I want to make sure that it's spent on MSOC. Because when we gave money for MSOC before, it just went to teacher raises, and now districts are back asking for more MSOC.”

[00:27:57] Megan Larkin: “Unfortunately, it's not even possible for districts to spend MSOC money on anything other than MSOC, because they are so in the hole. SPS, for example, spent $89 million on MSOC and only got $75. 8 million in funding from the state. And it's not like they can spend negative $14 million on teacher salaries. So because the underfunding is so great, we don't have to worry about the money getting bargained away. Because it's mathematically impossible. 

[00:28:33] Christie Robertson: Okay, last one is: "Washington has one of the highest amounts of education funding in the country. Districts just aren't being fiscally responsible with the money." 

[00:28:46] Megan Larkin: Unfortunately, Washington doesn't have one of the highest education spends in the country. And last year there was a gap of $89.6 million in transportation funding, $613 million in MSOC, and $558 million in special education. There's no amount of fiscal responsibility that could dig districts out of that hole. We call on you to do your constitutional duty and put back the funding that you stripped away from these bills."

[00:29:19] Christie Robertson: If you have gotten other pushback from legislators, it'd be really interesting to hear what they're saying and try to think about what to say in response. Email us if you get something else at hello@rainydayrecess.org.

[00:29:37] Megan Larkin: Yes. And we will have these sample responses to legislative pushback in the show notes. 

I do want to say though, that it's totally fine to go to the town hall and not speak, right? If this is intimidating to you and you're just like, “I could not possibly do it.” As long as there are other people speaking, you just being there and standing up and having your numbers counted, that matters. Don't worry, no pressure, show up. And get everyone else you know to show up.

[00:30:11] Christie Robertson: So hopefully with this episode, you are prepared to do whatever level you're comfortable with of showing your legislators that you're there and you care and that this is important for our state.

[00:30:25] Megan Larkin: Yes.

What's next

[00:30:26] Christie Robertson: And should we talk about what's coming next in session?

[00:30:30] Megan Larkin: Yes. There is another cutoff date fast approaching. Bills have to pass off the floor of the House of Origin by Wednesday, March 12th, I believe at 5pm. So we're going to wait to see what bills survive that next cutoff, and then hearings in the opposite body will begin immediately after the bill has passed off the floor of its House of Origin. 

For example, 5192, the Senate bill for MSOC has passed out of the Senate, scaled back even more, and it is now sitting in the House Appropriations Committee.

[00:31:09] Christie Robertson: Yes, I believe it's now a 5% increase in MSOC. 

[00:31:13] Megan Larkin: Yeah, it's not good enough. We got to tell legislators, “I am sorry, but no, that isn't good enough. 

[00:31:19] Christie Robertson: So by the end of this week, bills will be in committees again in the opposite house. This will be another chance to sign in pro, to talk to your legislators about what you want to see in the bills, and to testify. 

It's a shortened timeline for the opposite house. 

[00:31:38] Megan Larkin: Yes. So you might find yourself thinking, “Oh wait, haven't I already done something on this bill? Didn't I just sign in pro? Didn't I just send a letter to my legislator?” And, yeah, you probably did. But the timeline is so fast that you do have to help your preferred bills over each hurdle. And so, in this way, it's a good thing if you're like, “oh, wow I'm advocating for 5263 a lot.” Because that means that it's alive. It's making it past cutoff dates.

[00:32:11] Christie Robertson: That's week nine of the big three briefing.

[00:32:16] Megan Larkin: Next week, we'll be talking about which bills made it off the floor of the House of Origin and into the opposite chamber, and which committees to sign in or testify on. 

You can find our show notes and transcripts at rainydayrecess.org, and contact us with thoughts or questions at hello@rainydayrecess.org.

[00:32:35] Christie Robertson: That's where you can also subscribe, and donate. Stay curious, stay cozy, and thanks for listening to Rainy Day Recess.